hubzilla - Link zum Originalbeitrag

UFoI

There's a new movement in the Fediverse. It's called UFoI and it's one that has been motivating quite a lot of stir!

Some agree and try to help, try to build something that might indeed be necessary: a means to stop bad players to block instances trough the propagation of lies.

Others prefer to criticise without helping in any way and based, again, on lies.

You are all invited to join! You can change what you thing is wrong! You can help everyone building a better Fediverse, one based on facts and truth! A more democratic one! That's the main goal of UFoI!

Have you read anything at all? You know, you can join and leave at any time! You can contribute! And you can disagree! And block anyone if you see fit! That's what freedom stands for and that's what the UFoI stands for!

Try, for a change, to build something positive like the founders of The Fediverse have been doing since 2008!

#Federation #fedivere #blocking #fediblock


United Federation of Instances | United Federation of Instances

A federation of good-faith actors on the Fediverse
ufoi.org
#Federation #fediblock #fedivere #blocking

Roland Häder hat dies geteilt.

Als Antwort auf João Pinheiro

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Jonah Aragon

kitty.town/@gingerrroot/109484…

aka ginger

2022-12-09 15:08:06

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

#FediBlock is not a meta tag

FediBlock tag is not a place to muse about if you should block someone or even saying you did not block them

FediBlock tag is not for posts that are not about blocking someone or a server

make your own tag to “defend” instances, or just dont block them. not satisfied with the “proof?” dont block them.

not everything requires your input.

do not include the actual tag if there is no one to block, you are flooding the tag with useless posts


Als Antwort auf Jonah Aragon

friendica - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Roland Häder

@Jonah Aragon fba.ryona.agency/?domain=kitty… blocked being noisy (means: trouble-making when you have an other/"out-dated" opinion) and suspicious administrator activity. See it this way: queer+pronounces+admin=recipe for disaster. They think, the hashtag #fediblock belongs to them and no one is allowed to question or even try to discuss it.
#fediblock @Jonah Aragon
Als Antwort auf Roland Häder

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

ClipperChip

Nothing even remotely surprising. This is bound to happen when you let people play with moderation who have the mentality of a power hungry 3rd grader. We have to hope that the fediverse will self-regulate and most people will simply avoid these Kindergarten instances. That way, they can create their own echo chamber and I am totally fine with that.
Als Antwort auf João Pinheiro

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

rixx

AIUI, not blocking one another until a "due process" (that is unable to be rushed) has been completed is *the* core feature of this organisation; which I would consider as irreconcilable with an administrator's duties. My criticism isn't about some details to fix (though there are *plenty* of details y'all will need to fix, those statutes are a mess) – my criticism concerns the concept.
Als Antwort auf ari

hubzilla - Link zum Originalbeitrag

João Pinheiro

@ar For Eugene Mastodon is his business and he is not a model of integrity as you can read from my experience with him. So, legal action against anyone not behaving properly is better than spreading lies. That's what courts are for. Eugene's behaviour affects others and he must be responsible for the harm he may or may not cause to others. He has profited from my work to and nothing of that mattered to him when he pushed the delete button!
write.as/joaopinheiro/mastodon…
write.as/joaopinheiro/modern-d…
write.as/joaopinheiro/500-days…

Escrito à máquina...

2020-07-12 08:57:09


Modern-day Capital Punishment


Death Penalty

This post deals with some serious stuff, as you may have guessed by its tittle, stuff that worries me as we see the growth of the Capital Punishment or Death Penalty in various forms.

IRL (In Real Life) the Capital Punishment is still present in many countries, — fortunately not as many as it used to —, and has the aim of putting an end to the life of someone that has committed any crime that violates the country laws or to silence the voice of someone that has ideas which are in opposition to the will of those in power. In the later case the ones who hold the power lack the ability of persuading that person of the virtues of the politics they are implementing. So, they turn to this radical measure as a means of avoiding other/different opinions from spreading.

Recently, unfortunately, we've been witnessing the resurgence of radical forms of punishment IRL and also on the virtual world, that world where people thought it wouldn't be possible to have this type of punishment and where people thought they could create a world of freedom where democracy, free speech and liberty would reign.

We're used to read about governments imposing measures like censorship, both IRL and online, and the Capital Punishment when they want to preserve power or pass laws that result in maintaining that power regardless the people's will. But we aren't used to think about other forms of censorship and Capital Punishment. I'm referring to individuals imposing the same hideous measures.

What's interesting is that we tend to find these measures unacceptable when they are imposed by governments but accept them when they are applied by individuals, even though they are as hideous as when they are applied by the former!

It is also interesting that we find this daily on our beloved Fediverse, a place where FOSS reigns and where, I believe, open mind, free speech and respect should prevail! Not so, in some cases, I must say!

It is very easy to find Mastodon instances where the Code of Conduct allows the admin the power to simply erase the user account without any prior investigation or without trying to contact the user to clarify the subject.

If the issue under appreciation, which led to the user being reported, is something illegal, I can agree with such rules. But, I must say, when it comes to people's opinion, people's preferences, erasing an account on differences of opinion, when no hate, violence, aggressiveness, obscenity or illegal content is present is totally arbitrary, dictatorial and egocentric. That's censorship!

Instances whose admins act this way are small reigns where dictators rule by their own minds, not applying to themselves the rules and values they want others to believe they stand for.

Instances live in the Fediverse and form a network of constellations, they perform a Public service for which I thank every single instance owner: they offer people the chance to have a say, to make their voice heard. Different opinions should be expected and cherished. They are essential to better humanity. Only by exchanging different opinions can people better themselves. What good would it be on a place where other people would only echo our own ideas?!

When admins don't agree with someone and erase that person from an instance to shut him/her up they're applying the Capital Punishment. And when that's done without any prior warning, without giving the person the right to defend himself/herself, that's even worse! How can these admins affirm that they defend freedom IRL? How do they stand for human rights if one fundamental right of any human on trial is to be able to have a fair defence?! How can this happen without a fair trial?! Only in dictatorships does this happen! Only under dictatorships does the law come from one single mind!


On one of my last publications about the Portuguese language I said, in Portuguese, that people shouldn't cast stones on me because I was talking about the large community that share this language. And I had some links to Wikipedia which explain many historical aspects of what used to be the Portuguese colonial territories. I was talking about that, not defending it. Well, there was someone there calling me a “troll” because I said we shared a common past! We do share a common past! It's history. It's what made who we are today and, whether we like it or not. It's the way it is! We can't erase it. We shouldn't even try to do that. Instead, we should study our past, build a new future and not make the same mistakes again.

Some years ago I was profoundly moved when monuments and statues in Afghanistan were destroyed. History was destroyed! Today I'm also affected by the fact that people are destroying statues of people that are part of our History, sometimes, out of their own ignorance, of people who stood by the less fortunate! Should we also destroy the Pyramids and the Sphinx in Egypt? Should we stop studying them? Should we destroy the Vatican City? Should we erase from the face of the Earth all the Maya cities? Should we shut down Wikipedia, The Internet Archive and all the other sites where we can study and learn about our past? Should we destroy all BMW and Mercedes factories? Should we burn down all libraries? Should we burn down all museums? Should we...?! I think we ought better study our History and learn with the mistakes humanity has made and build a better future instead!

I believe that you would agree that the worst crime someone might perpetrate is to murder someone, to take the life of someone. Even in that case, in modern and fair societies, the murderer is given the chance to defend himself. It's a basic human right. It might have been an accident, an unfortunate one!

In some ancient societies this right to defence was already a norm. There were even refuge cities where a murderer could seek refuge and wait for a fair trial!

So, dear instance admins, perhaps you should think about this issue and apply some fairer rules to your instances. Perhaps you would be helping building a better world if you didn't take radical action against someone when the difference of opinion is under scrutiny and if you didn't apply the Capital Punishment to silence his/her voice without listening to the person first and without asking for a second opinion from someone else.

Failing to do so will undermine the future of the Fediverse itself as a place that stands for the freedom of all humans who want a better future for all humanity!


And using the Internet and all the other networks to transform frustration into anger, violence aggressiveness radicalism and hate won't ever lead humanity to a change for the better.

It's about time we all acted on what we preach!

#respect #Fediverse #censorship


Als Antwort auf MxFraud

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Jens Ljungkvist

Hey MxFraud.

It’s really easy to block others. I do it too. Especially when they’re raving racist or spout hate based on their phobias.

I joined Mastodon on the autumn wave from Twitter and I soon decided to start my own server to contribute back to the verse. I’ve been worried about which servers to block so I’ve been following FediBlock.
Yesterday I got my first user (yay) and my server also showed up on FediBlock for joining ufoi.

To me, that doesn’t seem fair.

Als Antwort auf MxFraud

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Jens Ljungkvist

Now, you can go ahead and block anyone that joined. That’s up to you.
But I also worry about servers defederating others without reason.
I’m not sure what to make of this controversy. Because I think the idea to collaborate is basically a good one. We need more of that. I’m not sure the “Constitution” as it’s written now is the best one. But I do know that one server (and maybe mine) has been blocked for just wanting to participate.

To me that says something.

Als Antwort auf João Pinheiro

friendica (DFRN) - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Raroun

@João Pinheiro @Jens Ljungkvist
I have now taken a look at the whole "UFoI" issue – at least for me -, the website, and also the reactions in the Fediverse.
The following is just my personal opinion.
The basic idea of the project is not bad. Above all, it is attractive for smaller instances at first glance.
But as other users of the Fediverse (why is it always Mastodon that is mentioned on ufoi.org/ ?) have already mentioned, the Fediverse is quite self-regulating. That is in the nature of things.

There is the slightly more widespread #fediblock and yes there is now also #UFoI.
But neither takes into account that a "block list", or list of "good instances" no matter how well maintained, can at least for me - only ever be a rough guide.
People who have gone berserk on an instance at some point may not have been there for ages. The entry in the list remains.

For me, an instance block is still an individual decision with a lot of research.
Before that, I would rather block 100 individual users than one instance.
I also have to make the same effort regularly to check whether the instance block is no longer necessary.

Exceptions are violations of applicable law such as threats, bullying, child pornography and whatnot, which unfortunately often come across as an admin.

I have a problem with general "recommendations" on blocking or trusting instances.
A list of instances that are "misbehaving" can at most be a decision-making aid for me personally. When it really comes to the point of considering an instance block, I like to look at the block list of other instances. If the instance being considered for a block is mostly blocked everywhere, that can tip the scales.
So much for my thoughts.

You have, at least according to my research, first of all a trust problem.
Something is being launched from the ground, everyone should join in, everything will be fine. That really doesn't fit in with the Fediverse. It could perhaps work if one has built up trust in many instances in the Fediverse over a (very) long time and then distributes "seals of approval". But you would also need the manpower for that.

Example:
Not every instance gets a prestigious seal of approval. You have to fulfil certain requirements, such as your Code of Ethics.
But that needs to be checked. It would take a large number of people to test new instances that want to carry the seal of approval.

For example, create an account, misbehave and then see if the account still exists in 2 days.
But the idea of a "federation" of instances that all function in the same way does not work in my opinion and does not correspond to the idea of the Fediverse.
If I have a problem with an instance, I ask my admin colleagues, many of whom have been running an instance much longer than I have - and we exchange ideas and oppinions.
You don't need an association for that.
I think you should go back to the drawing board on the concept of UFoI.
The idea is first of all noble, the implementation up to this point - at least for me - is questionable.
No offence.


United Federation of Instances | United Federation of Instances

A federation of good-faith actors on the Fediverse
ufoi.org
#fediblock #UFoI @João Pinheiro @Jens Ljungkvist

teilten dies erneut

Als Antwort auf Raroun

pleroma - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Ryle 🏳️‍🌈

UFoI

Hi there,

There are a few things that definitely not match up with what they’re supposed to be with the UFoI that you’ve described and that’s entirely a failing on our end. I’m going to take this as feedback so I can work to clean up the misconceptions more clearly and how some of the issues identified are valid misunderstandings of some of the process.

There’s a definitely a slight problem of ‘too many cooks spoil the soup’ when it came to explaining how much of this is supposed to work. The process of going around and correcting individuals misunderstandings instead of fixing the source material is part of the problem too and has lead to both annoyance and distrust.

Als Antwort auf João Pinheiro

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Harp

if nobody has told you the quality of the people heading this movement, keep in mind that:

  • qoto specifically runs a version of software with functionality to get around blocks and access locked posts, disregarding the fact that this social network is supposed to run on respecting those markings of consent
  • qoto also has recently used a kiwifarms tool to send harassing email spam to the admins of every single instance that has blocked them due to bad behavior (which qoto eagerly engages in as well), because apparently their idea of the fediverse wherein people can choose their own content to engage with - and to keep themselves safe - is anathema to them when it means not having a guaranteed audience
  • to compound the issues with 1 and 2, qoto has refused to not federate with known bad actors and consistently downplayed the danger that this means everyone qoto in turn federates with then gets to receive thanks to qoto welcoming those connections

these are not people to trust when they tell you that they are good faith actors.

similarly, the answer of "well then you come and fix it!" is incredibly naiive, and quite frankly insulting to the people who have put in work already doing that. (such as... admins communicating in the fediblock tag.)

it does not take one long to notice a distinct difference demographics between those who trust this endeavor, and those who don't. it's a lot of white men. most often, straight cis upper-middle-class men who have computer science degrees and grand ideas and cannot conceive of a world in which it is a bad idea to append your full real name and a selfie to every post.

this endeavor is doomed to fail because it is painfully privileged and bossy, and painfully resistant to considering the existence of others.

qoto has already made sure to alienate themselves from voices that are not - because qoto has, since it has arrived on the fediverse, taken an approach of "our users will simply come to ask you to defend your very existence, and if you do not sit them down and do the labor of patiently spoonfeeding them basic concepts in the hopes that will teach them, then you hate freedom and whatever". this is a type of intentional trolling that has been used for longer than both of us have been born. it is meant to exhaust and punish minorities for existing - it is not, and never has been, about learning. it is always about making those who are Other uncomfortable enough that they go back into hiding.

these are the people qoto has punished, and these are the people qoto has actively pushed away. these are the people who emphatically will not be party to this, because qoto has already taught them that qoto itself is full of bad actors who will just want to harass them with cries of 'debate meee'.

do you really trust a group with these demographics to tackle the systemic bigotry affecting minorities when it comes up on the fediverse?

i mean, i'm guessing you've fully bought into the idea that they're perfect, after you just arrived here. unfortunately, you would have been much better served to sit down, ask questions, and get to know the community first before deciding you know what's going on. this place already has its own history.

you sadly are certainly disregarding the communities that have built themselves into something fantastic... and how many of them blocked qoto a long time ago due to being an active danger and harm to users.

you aren't the first to do so, unfortunately - but i would emphatically warn you that with qoto a part of this process, this is worse than useless. given the fact that this is now qoto and its allies in an endeavor, that is only going to be worse.

don't give free press to the people peeing on your leg and telling you it's raining.

and before you suggest i fix it: this is qoto's modus operandi. to exhaust others with demands that they be the adult because qoto doesn't want to. and quite frankly, everyone HAS already fixed this:

by defederating from qoto.

Als Antwort auf Harp

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Harp

to further specifically refute your point of "you should come change it if you don't like it":

  • consider how often minorities are expected to sacrifice their safety and sanity in order to "educate" those hurting them. this is not fair; it is an aspect of bigotry. it makes bigotry into something that the minorities bring upon themselves (for they didn't try hard enough to "fix" the bigots), so clearly, the minorities must like it, and therefore bigotry is the natural order. i do not exist to merely be a sacrifice for the enlightenment of others.
  • qoto and its ilk have been told these things, again and again. their response was to rely on harassment tactics from kiwifarms. this is not what a good faith actor does in response to being told there are issues. this is what someone who wishes to hurt others does instead.
  • i would invite you to do some work in googling kiwifarms and why it is bad news. (if you are demanding that everyone else pour in a lot of effort, then surely, a little google search is something you're prepared to do, right?) by associating with them, and using their tactics, qoto has aligned themselves with kiwifarms. using those tactics is a type of threat against every single person on the fediverse that kiwifarms would like to kill - for instance, every single trans person. kiwifarms is, after all, a website that keeps a victorious running count of how many trans people they have bullied into suicide.
  • the work has already been done. by pretending that it hasn't, you are propegating a lot of bigotry still - ignoring the community builders that have been in the crosshairs for qoto's harassment. these are the people who have done a lot of very good work. and part of building their communities was blocking qoto.

i would also like to invite you to meditate upon two things:

first, a joke for your consideration - usually cited as originating from the french or norwegian resistances in ww2. a man sits down for a beer with his eleven friends. his eleven friends are nazis. how many nazis are sitting at the table? twelve.

and finally, a quote from Sartre, which i want you to read knowing what he describes is how most of the fediverse has seen qoto for a very long time -

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”


if you need a hint, consider a "YOU ARE HERE" sticker at the last line there. qoto is loftily declaring the time for argument is past, and therefore everyone must be all in on their new initiative.

they get to play. we get to die. that's what this initiative is spearheaded by.

Als Antwort auf Harp

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Harp

in short, if you value unity and democracy and fairness...

kowtowing to bullies who don't respect people's lives and are actively a danger to others on the fediverse? isn't it.

it is not unity to expect minorities to toss themselves into the woodchipper to power the machine for the elite. it is not democracy to demand that legitimacy be given to something that so many have already determined is not legitimate. it is not fair to expect people to accept being treated as inherently badly as qoto does - it is not fair to expect them to defend their identities at the drop of the hat, it is not fair to expect them to have their consent violated by software that intentionally hijacks data and ignores privacy settings, it is not fair of them to have their community building work entirely ignored because those that hurt them showed up with a latin motto and an air of authority.

it is not fair to dismiss all of this as 'causing a stir', and that people are simply not interested in progress.

it is especially not fair to do all that, and then sulkily declare, "fine! then YOU fix it!" when... they already have.

by not trusting this organization at all.

so instead of asking people to be broken by their oppressors, and to accept their lives are not as important, and to embrace the cruelty done to them - instead of asking everyone to shut up because the elite get to play, while the rest get to die - instead of trying to make the known bad actors into perfect angelic good-faith-all-along actors -

recognize the excellent work that has already been done. sit down and talk to the minorities running these communities. listen to them. admire their work. be proud you are existing in a place where they have done that work.

don't lambast them for being useless as you dismiss their accomplishments, and scold them for not wanting to "build something positive for a change".

Als Antwort auf Harp

friendica - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Roland Häder

@Harp :wigglytuff: I get the point of "Live and let live." and I'm being okay with that a gay enjoys shoveling his dick up into the consenting poopipe of another man. What I'm not okay with is the fact that these radical #LGBTQ people have tried to force a rainbow up my ass. I get the point that humans want to be loved and respected, fine with me. Just as long as they respect me back and are okay with whatever I want (and it is with a consenting woman).
#LGBTQ @Harp
Als Antwort auf Harp

friendica - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Roland Häder

@Harp :wigglytuff: Stop trolling me. The term "forcing a rainbow up my ass" is not literally said, I mean their obsession with weird pronouns and sexualities. I'm already being called many fancy and even conflicting names, like Putin-Ally and Nazi at the same time, "transphobic" while I'm simply not interested in dating them. I date exclusively straight women, not trans/queer/pan/bi/gay and that's my thing, not yours to judge on.

So I obviously don't have a right to speak about whatever I want and enjoy or else I face a #fediblock . Fine, I just give them the same honor, of being #blocked by me.

#fediblock #blocked @Harp
Als Antwort auf hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1

hubzilla - Link zum Originalbeitrag

João Pinheiro

@hackbyte (friendica) Those are fights I know nothing about. I know nothing about Roland Hader and I'm not going to waste my time searching for any info on him.

"still find it somewhat hard to believe, that there never was any explanation whatsoever. I'm sure, if you would have tried to communicate with them, you would at least get that for sure.... mhh.." You can find it however you want! It's the truth. It's all there and there was nothing else. I don't know why they didn't give me any warning. As I said, they couldn't have done it. There was no reason for it. And, when I sent them an email asking respectfully for an explanation, for concrete reasons for the blocking, I received none! No reply whatsoever! I don't know what I wrote that lead to that decision! My values are christian, human and I respect every single line of the Human rights Chart.

"So ... while i believe you getting blocked by them, i don't believe it was just happening with no apparent reason.. mh (As you can see, i'm living somewhere else on the #fediverse... ;))" So, that makes me a liar! And, since I haven't questioned one single time your integrity as human being and I've been respectfully replying to your not so respectful comments to my publication, I'm going to stop replying to you, unless you start treating me with the respect I deserve and that I've shown you. I won't be wasting my time trying to convince you of anything, nor do I need that! There's no room for that in my life, which is dedicated to be a better husband, father, citizen and teacher, every single day. That's where I'm going to apply my energy.

All the best to you.

#Fediverse
Als Antwort auf João Pinheiro

friendica - Link zum Originalbeitrag

hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1

@João Pinheiro I didn't call you a liar. I just said i don't believe it was for no reason..

But anyway, yeah, our overall lives are for sure too far apart. I didn't think i was really disrespecting you, i just told you my view on things which - as we know - differ very much. Btw, sorry but christianity means nothing to me whatsoever. Respect doesn't need religion. ;)

Anyway yeah .. we said what we had or wanted to, i didn't and don't intent to bother you at all... Have fun and stay healthy. ;)

@João Pinheiro
Als Antwort auf hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1

hubzilla - Link zum Originalbeitrag

João Pinheiro

@hackbyte (friendica) It's OK. We agree on this. There's no need for any religion to tell us that we must respect others. It's just that I can't stand when I'm being fully open about any subject and someone doubts my word. I don't lie. And, still today, I don't know why I was banned! And I did my best to receive the information, I asked for it several times, and nothing! The automatic email the system sent me said that I was promoting violence or something. I?! Doing what? And there was nothing concrete mentioned that I could even apologize for!

I wish you all the best! Truly!

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (2 Jahre her)
Als Antwort auf Harp

hubzilla - Link zum Originalbeitrag

João Pinheiro

@Harp :wigglytuff:

recognize the excellent work that has already been done. sit down and talk to the minorities running these communities. listen to them. admire their work. be proud you are existing in a place where they have done that work.

don't lambast them for being useless as you dismiss their accomplishments, and scold them for not wanting to "build something positive for a change".

Sorry, but you can't say anything of that sort about me. I've always done the first and never have I done the second! That's not me. I may make mistakes but, here, you're jumping into conclusions without any basis for it!

Yesterday I had this dialogue with someone: mastodon.pinheirodeabrantes.pt… I can't compute this type of attitude from someone that doesn't know me at all... This is one of the reasons why I think we need something to play the role of "judge" sometimes.

Als Antwort auf Harp

hubzilla - Link zum Originalbeitrag

João Pinheiro

@Harp :wigglytuff:

kiwifarms


I'm not new here and I'm very glad that I've been able to join the Fediverse three years ago. But, lately, I've not not been very active. Anyway, when I was banned for nothing by mastodon.social, I felt bad. My whole year of work was destroyed without any explanation. So, this initiative sounded like something that might be useful. It seems that I missed all that kiwifarms stuff... But, as others have also said, this might not be the perfect solution, but it might be a first try. I don't know...

Als Antwort auf João Pinheiro

friendica - Link zum Originalbeitrag

hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1

@João Pinheiro I still find it somewhat hard to believe, that there never was any explanation whatsoever. I'm sure, if you would have tried to communicate with them, you would at least get that for sure.... mhh..

So ... while i believe you getting blocked by them, i don't believe it was just happening with no apparent reason.. mh (As you can see, i'm living somewhere else on the #fediverse... ;))

#Fediverse @João Pinheiro
Als Antwort auf Raroun

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Harp

oh so like both of y'all are obsessed with the notion of dicks in your asses i guess? it's not really my fault you decided to be that easy to troll after careening in demonstrating the worst of bad faith.

though i guess i should thank you, here's the perfect example of just how, uh, just and unifying the forces under this system really are lmfao

mögen das nicht

Als Antwort auf Harp

mastodon - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Harp

in conclusion, here's a pretty good demonstration of how, exactly, the system you're promoting is rotten.

under its rules, i would now need to go offer it to the council to be voted on, if i were a moderator wanting to protect my instance from their homophobia and clear bad faith arguments. or, worse, i would need to go revamp the entire system in order to do this. and the entire system is one built around the oppressors being given the exact same courtesy as those they oppress - while also denying their victims a chance to not be hurt, or to simply respond appropriately to being hurt.

on one hand, it's somewhat apt that two people leapt in to so clearly demonstrate why these are parts of the fediverse that are not welcomed in most communities.

on the other hand?

you had a chance to say you wanted to build a fediverse where people could dodge such hateful content, and your reaction has been to... tell people that isn't morally correct, and promote the thing that will keep them in danger.

if that's the fediverse you want, well, i can't exactly stop you.

but i can say it's extremely foolish to call that endeavor 'just' or as if it is truly about 'unity' or 'democracy'. appeasing the tyranny of bigots by keeping minorities silenced is just that - the tyranny of bigots.

and honestly, let us put some mental cards on the table: my friend, you are not american. you don't speak english as your first language. you are not someone these people will consider to be 'of the west'. they will complain about the 'moorish influence' on portugal, and sneer about proximity to morocco. these are people accepting fascist rhetoric wholeheartedly and trying to make sure everyone follows them, or else, because their bigotry is the most important thing.

how long do you think you can dodge that before you are no longer One Of The Good Ones?

...or even, if i'm being honest, how long do you think you can keep your sanity after dealing with them sneering at you?

it's not going to be forever. i've just met you, i think you've gotten duped hardcore by some foolishness so i will admit you're not the highest in my esteem right now, and i want better than that for you. it's the whole reason i'm writing this pile of words. it's not just because this shit is a danger to me and my corners of the fediverse - it's because this shit is a danger to you, too.

do you want to promote a league of homophobia? of sexism, racism, transphobia, queerphobia, classism, and all manner of other bigotries? because... unfortunately, the bigots certainly think you're on their side. when they get what they want, do you think they're actually going to simply stop instead of looking at you hungrily as their next victim?

i'll refrain from making jokes about how it's german-speaking users showing up to do that. i figure you can do that on your own.

i honestly kinda know how this now goes - you roll your eyes, scoff, and ignore me for being histrionic. then you go on promoting this as the only way progress gets made on the fediverse. and then, some weeks or years later, it all ends up blowing up in your face. you spend some time wailing, "why did nobody warn me!?". maybe, god willing, you'll have the good fortune to realize that people did try to warn you, but you ignored them because they were too female, too nonwhite, too queer, too, too, too... and that this is a sign you have biases that bigots are using to snooker you into destroying others and also yourself. maybe you'll have that revelation! i can certainly hope for that for you.

but, well, i just don't have enough faith to stick around and see it.

consider this your ghost of christmases past, present, and future. except probably just the future one, in a suitably hardcore staging of A Christmas Carol, as i rattle bones ominously and point towards a warning of your doom. maybe, if i'm just lucky enough, you'll listen.

but i'm not inclined to waste more time hoping you will. after all, you've come into the fediblock tag showing an extreme lack of good judgement and willingness to kowtow to bigots.

eh. maybe someday, if not today.

until then, good luck. you will find you need it.

Als Antwort auf João Pinheiro

friendica - Link zum Originalbeitrag

hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1

@João Pinheiro @Max Kostikov There are no "abusive block" on the fediverse. There can't ever be any.

Because, it is the decision of a host/instance to block someone or some instance or not.

There is no right for anyone outside to judge about that, except for doing their very own block if they like.

Everything else you wanna try to imply here is srsly just plain bullshit.

There are no laws governing all this, so ... again there can't ever be a "abusive block".

@João Pinheiro @channel/kostikov
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag

qoto - Link zum Originalbeitrag

robryk

You are very obviously right for individual decision taken as a result of an interaction.

Other commenter commented about decisions taken for other instance's users.

For preemptive blocking (whether at the individual level or silencing at the instance level): looking at the whole system at once, there's an obvious positive feedback loop problem. Trying to see who was blocked by others and doing the same is a thing (see e.g. qoto.org/@robryk/1093509689469…). Obviously everyone has the right to do so. However, many enough instances doing that creates a positive feedback loop, so it has attractors and encourages trolls.

So, we have a right that, when used by the majority in one of the simplest ways possible makes the network IMO worse. A reasonable reaction to that is to make a simpler and effective way to use that right that doesn't create the same issue when used by the majority of users.

I have no opinion on whether ufoi is likely to help (and it would be worth little, given that I'm confused by social behaviour sometimes).

robryk

2022-11-16 01:49:28

qoto - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Sadly, people asked for help in importing the list verbatim on this thread even after you've added the comment :/

Als Antwort auf João Pinheiro

friendica - Link zum Originalbeitrag

Michael 🇺🇦

I just had a quick look at this thread. From my point of view I don't see the point here. When I see some block recommendation, then I have got a look at that instance. And when my impression is that the instance does not consent with my moral index then I will block that instance. I don't need an overhead that in fact forbids me to block specific systems.

In fact I'm more in for a federation of like minded instances that share their blocking recommendations. Especially since blocking is something that can and will be (for example) different in different regions. Also different systems will have got a different view of the world.

Als Antwort auf João Pinheiro

friendica - Link zum Originalbeitrag

hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1

@João Pinheiro Reply to zotum.net/display/b64.aHR0cHM6… (which didn't actually federate all along to my friendica home yet):

"The world is not black and white..."

Oh _yes_ it totally is. To be clear, we are speaking about our all greater private living room..

You can't come into _my_ living room and enforce me to listen to whatever you might have to say.

If i don't like .. i just can block you.

And there is nothing which can make this "absuive" at all, as it is just a passive reaction on my side ... to just not listen. And i totally have every fucking right to do so.. As have all instance moderators and hosts..

So in this particular case... There isn't even a black... It's just the white of our all private rights.... to not listen to ppl who we think are possible a.holes....

Zotum

zotum.net
@João Pinheiro
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