I think Americans have a hard time admitting that their government is carrying out a genocide, and the idea of an outside entity corrupting their leaders is easier to swallow.
Both Democrats and Republicans literally get millions on campaign donations and lobbying from AIPAC, saying that pointing this out is antisemitism is pure manipulation and honestly Hasbara . Anti Zionism is not antisematism.
No but implying that they control the US is. The relationship goes the other way. I am not going to argue with you about this this is a bad line of attack against Zionism.
You are literally just playing into the ZOG trope fuck all the way off dude.
The fact that Israel is the 51st state of the USA doesn’t mean that they cannot have politicians in their pocket for preferential treatment. They do have a high level of control in politics due to its lobbying and “donations” (bribes).
I am not denying that the USA has tons of geopolitical interest in Israel and “if it didn’t exist we would have to invent one” - Joe Biden. But saying that Israel holds no sway in USA politics is just disingenuous. Both countries affects each other politics, and Israel is the most beloved colonial project of the USA.
"Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel."Here's a history of surprising statements US President Joe Biden has ...
“WE ENCOURAGE the U.S. government to enact specific policies that create a strong, enduring and mutually beneficial relationship with our ally Israel.”
Israel does not own the US, the US allows AIPAC to exist to maintain its own interest among congresspeople (etc.). Only one of them is existentially dependent on their working together, and it's not the US (though the US massively benefits).
Pro-Israeli lobby group's United Democracy Project hails result as 'further proof that being pro-Israel is good policy and good politics on both sides of the aisle'
I used to think lobby groups are influential in determining the outcome of these elections but I think the reality is they align themselves with candidates that are slated to more likely win. Sometimes they even fund both candidates. Money just doesn't seem to translate to effective victory. Look at Bloomberg in 2016. That guy spent an ungodly amount of money on his campaign - - - more than all the candidates combined or something close.
Cory Bowman was already waning in popularity. From your article:
Bowman had several compounding low-level mistakes and scandals that could easily be hammered home to voters, like pulling the fire alarm at the Capitol or his controversial hip-hop lyrics. Beyond that, Latimer is a popular politician who has represented most of the district’s voters for years. Add in more money than any group has ever spent on a congressional primary by an enormous margin, and you have the conditions for a win.
I think it all depends. I'm not saying AIPAC is not influential. I just don't think it's so clear cut. I think the money in more to get access. The reality is Israel is popular with boomers, and Dem boomers vote. We are starting to see a shift with younger voters but it's just not there yet.
Access to influence policy and legislation. But they seem to get mixed results. There have been a few studies that looked at the actual effects of lobbying. I may have to dig around but i can track them down. It's very interesting because it upturned what my assumptions were about lobbying.
It seems they find candidates that are already somewhat aligned and work no push the scale further. Like, someone like Latimer wouldn't need a lot to push the scale in favor of AIPAC objectives.
It certainly goes some way to explain why lobbyists buy politicians for pennies in the grand scheme of things, but ultimately you're saying the same thing with a different inflection.
Sort of. It's a mixed bag is what I'm saying. It's just not as impactful as we all imagine it to be. Some politicians are very corrupt obviously. But it's not this prevalent "corporations own congress" kinda thing.
It's shitty, but you will get one of them in power, and it's encumbent on you to vote for the obvious lesser of two evils.
If you like the Greens (or whoever else's) policies, work to fight for them the other 1,458 days of the election cycle - polling day is for buying a few more years of moribund US democracy - not for pissing away your vote and letting the fascists in.
I recognize your anger, I am also distraught about Palestine and I wish we had a candidate who was adamant about not giving more aid to Israel. I'm not saying you need to give up on your ideals nor am I telling you to shut up about it. But let's be real here, as much as we hate it, we only have 2 choices in November, and one of them will cause much MUCH more damage to Palestinians, Americans, and quite possibly the entire globe if he gets elected. We CANNOT let Trump win, so again, as much as I don't like many of Kamala's stances, she is undeniably receiving my vote
Theoretically, sure, it's possible. I think what's more likely to happen if Trump fucks up is that Israel will just keep up the attack maybe with slightly less support. It's not like they are a U.S. State that has to abide by a SCOTUS decision; they are (for good and bad) their own sovereign nation and ~~could~~ WOULD MOST LIKELY make the choice to continue their abhorrent actions, regardless of whatever Trump himself might do.
The state of Israel is not a "puppet" of the U.S., only able to make a movement when given a command from the White House; it is closer to Frankenstein's Monster, fully capable of making its own decisions, and sometimes they choose to do evil things (regardless of how 'justified' they tell themselves it is). It's not a 1-to-1 comparison, but I think it's a better way to understand the whole situation
I mean, you're not wrong, but again, it's extremely unlikely that Israel/US relations sour SO bad that the US wouldn't step in and help defend an Israel under assault. Again, it's theoretically possible but very unlikely. Plus, what you said is true regardless of who wins in November, which was my original point
I still argue that a second Trump presidency would lead to worse outcomes for everyone involved, perhaps even the entire global population, than a Harris presidency.
I wouldn't really call his last presidency a successful one, but he still managed to fuck over everyone (except possibly Elon Musk). We can't let Trump anywhere near that office ever again.
P.S. I think you and I have fallen to the Leftist Curse of arguing nonstop even though we only disagree on like 1-5% of the conversation
Nakoichi [they/them]
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •sub_ubi
Als Antwort auf Nakoichi [they/them] • • •I think Americans have a hard time admitting that their government is carrying out a genocide, and the idea of an outside entity corrupting their leaders is easier to swallow.
Good to call it out now.
mögen das
KaRunChiy mag das.
Nakoichi [they/them]
Als Antwort auf sub_ubi • • •Spectre
Als Antwort auf Nakoichi [they/them] • • •mögen das
dhhyfddehhfyy4673 mag das.
Nakoichi [they/them]
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •No but implying that they control the US is. The relationship goes the other way. I am not going to argue with you about this this is a bad line of attack against Zionism.
You are literally just playing into the ZOG trope fuck all the way off dude.
Spectre
Als Antwort auf Nakoichi [they/them] • • •The fact that Israel is the 51st state of the USA doesn’t mean that they cannot have politicians in their pocket for preferential treatment. They do have a high level of control in politics due to its lobbying and “donations” (bribes).
I am not denying that the USA has tons of geopolitical interest in Israel and “if it didn’t exist we would have to invent one” - Joe Biden. But saying that Israel holds no sway in USA politics is just disingenuous. Both countries affects each other politics, and Israel is the most beloved colonial project of the USA.
AernaLingus [any]
Als Antwort auf Nakoichi [they/them] • • •Beat me to it.
Joe Biden's long history of pro-Israel statements
YouTubelewdian69
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •mögen das
dhhyfddehhfyy4673, fif-t und KaRunChiy mögen das.
webghost0101
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •There not even being vague about it.
“WE ENCOURAGE the U.S. government to enact specific policies that create a strong, enduring and mutually beneficial relationship with our ally Israel.”
aipac.org/
How is that not foreign election interference?
At what point can we just call it and say the USA is an asset of Israel?
mögen das
dhhyfddehhfyy4673 und young_broccoli mögen das.
Spectre
Als Antwort auf webghost0101 • • •Keeponstalin
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •TwoBeeSan
Als Antwort auf webghost0101 • • •If ever a site begged to be hacked with pictures of war crimes....
Although it wouldn't do shit for those demons
itsathursday
Als Antwort auf webghost0101 • • •queermunist she/her
Als Antwort auf webghost0101 • • •The US and Israel are part of the same joint imperial project.
Do you think AIPAC can operate without permission?
GarbageShootAlt2
Als Antwort auf webghost0101 • • •jordanlund
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •Yup, and with good reason. Thanks "Citizen's United!"
commondreams.org/news/progress…
apnews.com/article/cori-bush-a…
theguardian.com/commentisfree/…
haaretz.com/us-news/2024-08-07…
Another victory for AIPAC: Wesley Bell and $8.5 million defeat 'Squad' member Cori Bush
The Associated Press (Haaretz)TheFonz
Als Antwort auf jordanlund • • •I used to think lobby groups are influential in determining the outcome of these elections but I think the reality is they align themselves with candidates that are slated to more likely win. Sometimes they even fund both candidates. Money just doesn't seem to translate to effective victory. Look at Bloomberg in 2016. That guy spent an ungodly amount of money on his campaign - - - more than all the candidates combined or something close.
Cory Bowman was already waning in popularity. From your article:
I think it all depends. I'm not saying AIPAC is not influential. I just don't think it's so clear cut. I think the money in more to get access. The reality is Israel is popular with boomers, and Dem boomers vote. We are starting to see a shift with younger voters but it's just not there yet.
GarbageShootAlt2
Als Antwort auf TheFonz • • •Access to what and for what purpose?
TheFonz
Als Antwort auf GarbageShootAlt2 • • •Access to influence policy and legislation. But they seem to get mixed results. There have been a few studies that looked at the actual effects of lobbying. I may have to dig around but i can track them down. It's very interesting because it upturned what my assumptions were about lobbying.
It seems they find candidates that are already somewhat aligned and work no push the scale further. Like, someone like Latimer wouldn't need a lot to push the scale in favor of AIPAC objectives.
It's very interesting to read up on this.
GarbageShootAlt2
Als Antwort auf TheFonz • • •TheFonz
Als Antwort auf GarbageShootAlt2 • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •zarp86
Als Antwort auf ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
Als Antwort auf zarp86 • • •zarkanian
Als Antwort auf ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
Als Antwort auf zarkanian • • •Fredthefishlord
Als Antwort auf ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
Als Antwort auf Fredthefishlord • • •Vex for Harris & Wallz has moved
Als Antwort auf Spectre • •United States | News & Politics hat dies geteilt.
delirious_owl
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •Crashumbc
Als Antwort auf delirious_owl • • •.ml
All you need
corsicanguppy
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •WaxedWookie
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •It's shitty, but you will get one of them in power, and it's encumbent on you to vote for the obvious lesser of two evils.
If you like the Greens (or whoever else's) policies, work to fight for them the other 1,458 days of the election cycle - polling day is for buying a few more years of moribund US democracy - not for pissing away your vote and letting the fascists in.
Spectre
Als Antwort auf WaxedWookie • • •CaptainKickass
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •You keep telling people not to tell you who to vote for
Stop telling me who to vote for 😘
Spectre
Als Antwort auf CaptainKickass • • •Of course I am going to keep telling people not to vote for a genocider. What is wrong with you?!
Your “freedom” to vote does not extent to be permitted to just ethnic cleanse millions of people.
TargaryenTKE
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •queermunist she/her
Als Antwort auf TargaryenTKE • • •TargaryenTKE
Als Antwort auf queermunist she/her • • •Theoretically, sure, it's possible. I think what's more likely to happen if Trump fucks up is that Israel will just keep up the attack maybe with slightly less support. It's not like they are a U.S. State that has to abide by a SCOTUS decision; they are (for good and bad) their own sovereign nation and ~~could~~ WOULD MOST LIKELY make the choice to continue their abhorrent actions, regardless of whatever Trump himself might do.
The state of Israel is not a "puppet" of the U.S., only able to make a movement when given a command from the White House; it is closer to Frankenstein's Monster, fully capable of making its own decisions, and sometimes they choose to do evil things (regardless of how 'justified' they tell themselves it is). It's not a 1-to-1 comparison, but I think it's a better way to understand the whole situation
queermunist she/her
Als Antwort auf TargaryenTKE • • •An Israel with less support is one that is in more danger of inviting retaliation from its neighbors.
Of particular interest to me is Egypt, which only cooperates with Israel because of the US. e
TargaryenTKE
Als Antwort auf queermunist she/her • • •queermunist she/her
Als Antwort auf TargaryenTKE • • •I don't see relations souring under Trump, per se, but I do see him fucking up the careful balancing act in that region.
Furthermore, Israel is becoming so unpopular in the US that direct intervention would destabilize the country.
If the goal is defeating the US/Israel then electing an incompetent and unpopular president is not a bad result at all.
TargaryenTKE
Als Antwort auf queermunist she/her • • •queermunist she/her
Als Antwort auf TargaryenTKE • • •I think a successful Trump presidency would be worse for people all around the world.
I do not predict success. I think his presidency will be a disaster.
But ultimately it comes down to how we respond. He won't fail unless he's defeated by a mass movement against his presidency.
TargaryenTKE
Als Antwort auf queermunist she/her • • •I wouldn't really call his last presidency a successful one, but he still managed to fuck over everyone (except possibly Elon Musk). We can't let Trump anywhere near that office ever again.
P.S. I think you and I have fallen to the Leftist Curse of arguing nonstop even though we only disagree on like 1-5% of the conversation
zeppo
Als Antwort auf TargaryenTKE • • •تحريرها كلها ممكن
Als Antwort auf Spectre • • •